Tristra and Eleanor scan the horizon of music tech news and discuss the latest ripples and waves shaping our industry. Today they go into the rabbit hole that is the current state of fandom. Join us.
Shownotes
Defector
Music Business Worldwide
MusicEXP
Billboard
Billboard
Washington Post
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Episode Transcript
Machine transcribed
0:00:15 - Tristra
Hey everybody and welcome back to Music Tectonics, the podcast that goes beneath the surface of music and tech. I am your co-host today, Trista Newyear-Yeager.
0:00:26 - Eleanor
And I'm Eleanor Rust. I don't get to be on the podcast very much, so I'm excited to join Trista today for some big headlines.
0:00:36 - Tristra
Indeed, and for this episode we really wanted to go basically to take a little nostalgic look back at what's been a very interesting summer when it comes to the intersection of music, tech and media and culture and get kind of an interesting vibe check especially sort of TikTok fandom and how the music tech trends are really involved, really shaped by how people are changing, how they want to interact with artists and music.
Yeah, I think it's important to remember that there are cultural forces that can be just as seismic and just as important to the topography of the music ecosystem right so it's not just that tech determines what people do.
It's that what people want to do kind of bumps up against tech, and there's this tension that I mean. If I want to take the tectonic plate thing even further and be even more obnoxious in my metaphors, it's like these two massive plates ramming together to form these mountains. But you can't have much, you know, without culture. What is tech? What?
0:01:56 - Eleanor
is it? Yeah, absolutely.
0:01:57 - Tristra
It's like an empty room. It's kind of sad. All right, let's get to our first piece. So, as probably everyone listening knows, a very wonderful pop star whose name is properly pronounced Chapel Roan, thank you, I've been pronouncing her name all sorts of weird ways, like an idiot, but she made a very passionate TikTok about how she felt regarding certain fan behavior, and she's not the first artist to raise this flag.
0:02:26 - Eleanor
Yeah, in fact, in the office, when we were talking about this, our younger fans, or fans, our younger co-workers who are also fans brought up how Doja Cat made some similar statements but got a lot of backlash immediately from Stan TikTok on, you know, seeming to be ungrateful for her rising star.
And for context, you know, chapel roan is not is, like you know, she signed to a major label. She was was first signed to a major label as a teenager, um, but has spent a lot of time building up her both musical chops and deep fan base, um, but it's this summer that it's really taken off and she really skyrocketed, uh, to fame. And I've seen lots of stories covering that meteoric rise, especially how the festivals she booked year, a year ago have had to move her to bigger and bigger stages, uh, as her star has risen. But actually, her TikTok videos about the sickness of modern fandom, as an article in Defector phrases it. Those videos came across my For you page and they're really raw and I don't know, confrontational isn't quite the word, but like vulnerable, but like don't pull punches.
0:03:44 - Tristra
Yeah. So for a great recap of, you know, this whole discussion that she sparked with those TikTok videos, we're turning to, as Eleanor just mentioned, an article in Defector by Kelsey McKinney. It really goes over some of these modern tensions around fandom and in some ways this is also a tech story. Right, this isn't just a fandom story in that fans now have access to all sorts of technology that allows them to find out more and more about the celebrities and influencers and musicians that they feel a connection to. And this parasocial relationship can lead to behaviors that kind of seem innocuous, Like, oh I'm just curious, where does Chappelle Roan's sister live? Where does her mom work? You know, like just normal human curiosity that can get taken to this extreme. That is very disturbing on the receiving end, and I really think this is a good conversation for us to have because in some ways, you know, understanding parasocial relationships is the key to understanding fandom and also to keeping her mental health intact for sure.
0:04:49 - Eleanor
And and also she's really used short form video to to create that fan base, right. She's been posting on youtube shorts and tiktok for years, really like kind of from her home. She's done a lot of sort of behind the scenes covers, you know, like demos, basically the equivalent, you know, the equivalent of the 8-track demo of the 90s might be the like performing live on TikTok or YouTube Reels, and she's done that like right. She's engaged with the fandom in that really intimate way and so she's benefited from parasocial relationships. But she's really seen this, you know, something tip over into well, what does she say? Like creepiness, basically.
0:05:40 - Tristra
Yeah, it's a strange tension that I think is only going to get a little. It's only sadly, it's only going to get more severe and we're gonna have to really again. This is where culture could play an important role, like, yeah, not to be too demure about it, but etiquette may need to change, and you know we have seen that things like you know. I remember I remember back in the day when people would complain about cell phone etiquette and for the most part that has kind of developed, like people flip their phones over when they're having a conversation with a friend or they keep their phones stowed and in silent mode if they know there's nothing urgent going on. So I really think there could be some progress made here.
0:06:22 - Eleanor
Yeah, and the conversation has to happen for it to, for that to develop, for people to decide that there are ethics for, you know, can you be an ethical superfan? How can you, how can you support and participate in fandom? Our office got talking about this, about this story. Somebody mentioned that the rising super fan communities might be a way to both explore those ethics but also like, create, you know, work on fandom culture in a way that doesn't infect the artist's presence, right? So if fans doesn't infect the artist's presence, right? So if fans, if Swifties, can participate in we mentioned specifically Fave, a fan community app that does a lot of kind of gamifying and incentivizing fan interactions with each other, if you can, you, you know, move your parasocial relationships into that fan circle rather than projecting it on to the artist.
0:07:30 - Tristra
so much, um, maybe everyone wins yeah, and I think a lot of fandoms are self-regulating in certain ways. Whether you're talking about, you know, going back to the, the deadheads or the juggalos or, um, uh know, the barbs or something like that, there are norms that get put in place and I guess without, as you said, without the conversation, those norms never arise. Well, I'd love to move on to another aspect of TikTok that came up recently from Music Business Worldwide, and it was written by the prolific and ever-devoted Murray Stassen.
I don't know how Murray does it, but yeah, I'll have what Murray's having. Anyway, this headline is great. Basically gives you everything you need to know. Over half of TikTok's biggest global tracks of the summer are independently distributed and many of these tracks were actually Latin tracks.
0:08:24 - Eleanor
Yeah, and from parts of the Latin world that have not always been represented on the charts.
0:08:30 - Tristra
Yeah, like the number one is from a Chilean artist.
0:08:34 - Eleanor
Yeah, which is? Pretty exciting, murray points out that it's the first time a Chilean artist has entered the Billboard Hot Latin Songs chart since 1999.
0:08:44 - Tristra
Thank you, murray, for that great statistical analysis. This is fantastic, and this track was released through United Masters, which is pretty exciting. So the reason I wanted to bring this one up, eleanor, and talk about it was just the increasing impact, especially in some of these channels that are engaging younger music audiences, the increasing impact of independent companies, independent releases, the sort of independent infrastructure and the artists who use it to get music before young audiences. So there's I think there's just speaks to you know bigger trends that you can see, whether you're looking at media's report about reports about the, the music sectors that have huge representations of independent music. Um, you know, this is as we've talked about before on the podcast and many of our guests have talked about this balance of power has shifted and there's, especially in all the things that are looking at the future of music, ie engaging younger listeners.
0:09:47 - Eleanor
we are looking at a lot of variety and people coming out of what feels like left field or from the you know grassroots, what feels like left field or from the you know grassroots, yeah, and of course TikTok wants to take a lot of credit for that and you know, rightfully, there's a statement from the company's global head of music business development, ulla Oberman, I assume.
0:10:10 - Tristra
Love it. Look at those Scandi chops here. Please let us know how to pronounce that name if you're Scandinavian.
0:10:16 - Eleanor
here, those Scandi chops here Please let us know how to pronounce that name if you're Scandinavian here, and he refers to the magic of TikTok, which helps our global community discover and promote a diverse range of incredibly talented artists and their music.
0:10:39 - Tristra
And, but I don't know, trista, do you think it's the TikTok? Is it the TikTok effect or do you think that's the indie platform effect? All is that all work together? I mean, I think the interesting thing about the way people experience music on tiktok is they may have a different set of, like, different frames of reference. Right, they're not expecting things to sound a specific way, and it's more about how the music pairs with other media as well as sort of the. You know, I think there are people are a little bit open mind, more open minded when they listen to something on TikTok versus FM radio or even on their own Spotify, like they. Just some people don't want to event. I mean, I'm not one of them. I don't Spotify Like they. Just some people don't want to event. I mean I, I, I'm not one of them, I don't. I'm one of those people that like, is what is this random, weird band? Um and um? I want to hear this cause. You know why not? But for for a lot of folks out there, that's not their behavior, and so they may be suffering from the sort of algo bubble collapse that a lot of people have been complaining about um yeah
0:11:36 - Eleanor
lately and um, it's true that scrolling through tiktok is, I mean, I'm sure, from the outside, I, I, um, it's a strange cacophony, right that, uh, that you know dance music is followed by, um, somebody's uh voiceover is followed by you know a viral little comedy meme or whatever. Is that? It's a? It's an intense variety and that people seem to really love that and and instead of like, ooh, I need a cure. Carefully curated stream for my working, my focus mix that it's the chaos is is part of the fun yeah, the chaos mix mix Actually.
0:12:17 - Tristra
I should do that. I should make a terrible play. Well, I actually do have some playlists. Eleanor One is called Hell's Playlist, which is basically all the songs that my children have tortured me with over the years.
0:12:27 - Eleanor
Oh wow, yeah, let me know if anyone wants to share that.
0:12:30 - Tristra
It involves Christmas songs that can only be played in July, et cetera, et cetera late in July, et cetera, et cetera.
0:12:35 - Eleanor
I want to mention one trend that is not represented on the top list, but this is just a personal thing. There's this. You might've heard this Budots song on TikTok. It started well. It started as a you know, a Filipino dance genre that's had a long history I was so glad to find from explainer videos on TikTok. But then it gained new life this summer as a little fashion girly trend where people would just do a very, very simple dance to show off different outfits.
But then the Filipino Budots community piled on to demonstrate the actual dance form, which is much more sinuous and difficult and exciting and like, very culturally like, has a lot of cultural allusions, a lot of connections to traditional Filipino dance but also to political movements in Philippines. So it's, there's a lot. I love to seeing that back and forth between somebody pulling that track just to make a fun viral fashion thing, somebody pulling that track just to make a fun viral fashion thing and then you know people learning more, getting deeper learning about that Boudat's trend, but I have to say, every time it comes up my husband curses because it's this earworm.
It's this earworm that uses a Gloria Estefan sample. Okay, why not? Yeah, yeah, yeah and yeah, so anyway.
0:14:01 - Tristra
Well, I think that's such an important point that there's also so much more context that can be provided on certain platforms and I know Spotify has been pushing to get video ads and just video in general in people's feeds. I gotta say I mean I want to hear from younger folks how they're experiencing it, but for me it just seems really irrelevant yeah yeah yeah.
No offense Spotify.
0:14:24 - Eleanor
I see what you're trying to do I'm not sure, but, and again you know, everyone's mileage may vary, but yeah that is a really good point is that is that Spotify algorithm seems to depend so much on categorization and sound, but not about that sort of like. Okay, let's go deeper into maybe the deep cuts of this genre. If you liked something with a sample, what about like tracing?
That's a good idea, I love it or, if you liked, the breakout hit from this global genre that's just breaking out. What about, like you know, could you, could you choose to go deeper, and I do see that in like suggested playlists.
0:15:02 - Tristra
Yeah, third party playlists will play that role, but sure, but not static. They're not getting, they're not getting kind of served to you in quite the same way as you might get on like if you put on smart shuffle or the radio function anyway, all right. Well, we're going to take a quick break here and then we're going to come back with more on a new platform and music and Brett Sommer, of course.
0:15:26 - Ad
The Music Tectonics team has been hard at work, programming an amazing lineup of speakers for our 2024 edition. I've had the opportunity to talk with some of our thought leaders, and here's what they're excited about. Joe To of Sony Ventures is looking at the big picture, to quote him. Right now we are witnessing a remarkable convergence of entertainment media, encompassing music, gaming, streaming and more. This fusion within the entertainment landscape is revolutionizing the way fans consume content. It enables deeper connections and engagement with creators through innovative and immersive experiences. By leveraging these diverse media forms, we are fostering a dynamic and interactive ecosystem where creativity and interaction thrive in unprecedented ways thrive in unprecedented ways. Other hot topics speakers are excited to dive into include AI comes to market, super fans and fandom, late stage streaming, gamers as music fans. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Head over to musictectonicscom slash speakers to check out our amazing lineup of thought leaders, updated regularly. Now back to the show.
0:16:39 - Tristra
Okay, we're back and, eleanor, I have to say I have a little bit of a LinkedIn newsletter intellectual crush on Matt Ombler, who writes about video games and music and has just often really excellent analyses of the gaming world and how it intersects with the music business from points of view that I've never considered. Like you know, we'll talk about his latest newsletter. Oh, my goodness, we'll talk about his latest newsletter right now. But he in the past has done everything from talk about Christian games and like sort of the strange gap in the market, because you know there.
Christian games and like sort of the strange gap in the market, because you know there's a lot of Christian contemporary music. There's not a lot of games that make the most of this music. So he raises some really cool questions and points to some interesting trends and dynamics that I don't see anywhere else. Maybe I'm just not reading all the good stuff, but I also think Matt knows what he's talking about, which is great. So recently he published a newsletter called Charlie XCX on Roblox the best music activation on the platform yet. Question mark Wow.
0:17:46 - Eleanor
Yeah, and this is the Game. Music Digest is his weekly newsletter, by the way.
0:17:50 - Tristra
Yeah, we'll put some stuff in the show notes so you can track Matt down and become his devoted follower.
0:17:55 - Eleanor
Those show notes will be at musictectonicscom. Just find the podcast button in the menu and it'll take you to a list of episodes with links and show notes.
0:18:06 - Tristra
So what Matt goes into a lot of detail about super helpful is CharlieXCX has finally brought Brat to Roblox. It felt like this was a long time coming, but you know these things take time to develop and create. So she there's sort of a Roblox game called Dress to Impress.
0:18:25 - Eleanor
Which is huge, right. I mean looking at those numbers it's in like users are in the billions.
0:18:30 - Tristra
Yes, but Charlie gave it a 12 million player bump. Yeah, and what's really interesting here is there's kind of a bunch of cultural cliches that have developed on Roblox.
So as people are thinking about things like mini games or accessories or whatever I'm probably not using the right words because I'm a cringe bomb. They're often thinking in really narrow terms. It's kind of like what's gone before, and what Charlie's team did that was so brilliant was they took all of the imagery and sort of ideas and, you know, color schemes etc. That had played a huge role in making her album such a viral thing this summer and interpreted it for Roblox, and so it's a real. It feels really fresh and really connected to um, to the brat vision.
0:19:24 - Eleanor
yeah yeah, and matt ombler, um, I think his analysis is really astute about why this really worked, at least for roblox. Um, I don't know if the if we've, we've, uh, if there's been time to see an effect on Charlie XCX's numbers, ah yeah, but that there's a real natural audience overlap, mm-hmm, that there's social media buzz about the album and, among the people who are also using Roblox, that the aesthetics and the mechanics of the game work together. I thought that was really essential, totally yeah. One thing we've heard at the Music Tectonics Conference, when we are bringing together people who work in games and music and tech all around topics like this, that a lot of music industry folks seem to be looking at games and saying, well, I just want a piece of that when really it has like success comes when you really understand the community and what people want, that you can't just kind of like copy paste.
0:20:26 - Tristra
Yeah, and sometimes you know if someone plays games, if an artist plays games, it makes it, you know, a thousand times easier. So, for instance, I've seen some really neat album launches that incorporated games and they were kind of like those hole games, you know, where you sort of become a bigger and bigger hole and swallow more and more things. But it really fit the artist's vibe, their aesthetics and it made a ton of sense to the audience. So in some ways, you know, instead of just doing Roblox, to do Roblox, you got to think about how would we fit into Roblox.
0:21:03 - Eleanor
Yeah Well, and that's why Dressed to Impress was a good match, such a perfect match. An audience, but also that the brat aesthetic has that. I mean the look in the pictures that Matt Ambler, the screen caps that Matt Ambler shared. There's a sort of a 2000s brat doll look in, dressed to Impress that the brat merch in-game really complements right. There's a Y2K kind of aesthetic going on that really works and the merch within this collaboration just looks. You know it just fits, it's. There's no shoehorning.
0:21:43 - Tristra
Yeah, I mean. So, maybe, if you're thinking about this, if you're an artist, maybe this isn't, but that, maybe that's not the game you engage.
0:21:48 - Eleanor
Maybe you engage like, I don't know pizza mogul.
0:21:51 - Tristra
What's the other? I would say if I were an artist I would definitely, be like in the one where you like, run your own car wash or something like that. That would definitely be where I'd want to do an activation.
0:22:01 - Eleanor
Anyway, yeah, be where I'd want to do an activation. Anyway, that was so. Anyway, check that stuff out. And okay, yeah, brat Summer will not be over until we talk about another Brat collaboration.
0:22:12 - Tristra
Brat Bratulation. It's like a constellation but with Brats yeah yeah, all right. So I've been really seeing a ton of stories. I mean there's, you know, obviously it's election season, stuff's heating up, things are getting very. The energy in the room is increasing so to speak. And since Kamala Harris has become the Democratic nominee in the US, the balance has really shifted and there's been a lot of talk about influencers, memes, internet culture and how that's playing into this election.
So everyone was kind of expecting this would be the AI election quote unquote but AI stuff has fallen really flat See Trump's Swifty debacle and in general there's been a lot of talk about how music should be used by campaigns and candidates. So we've heard about Beyonce sending cease and desist letters to the Trump campaign for their use of freedom. There's a lot of talk about this, but there was a great billboard piece by Kyle Dennis recently called what Can Kamala Harris's Presidential Campaign Tell Us About the Current State of Pop F fandom, and this article mentions Beyonce, charli, xcx, chapel Roan, megan, thee Stallion and sort of plays shows the sort of musical aspect of a lot of this meme culture that's coming up. So I just wanted to point this out that I can't recall.
I mean, obviously there's always been these glitches where some campaign has used an artist's music and the artist isn't on their side. Often it's a more liberal artist being used by a conservative candidate, but it really feels like music is playing a guiding role and that pop stars are almost becoming spokespeople for certain or kind of sort, not not being completely drafted into service as an official spokesperson but, but being willing to lend their music, and sometimes their live performances, to campaigns, uh, and I thought it was interesting that that, um, while uh, an article mentions that megan the stallion and bonnie varever for like very different artist picks have performed, I mean, there's a collab I'd love to see Right.
0:24:29 - Eleanor
Anyway, they both performed. They've performed at different rallies for Kamala Harris and that Freedom is an official campaign song for the Harris campaign. That Harris, the Harris, that uh, that harris, the harris campaign, at its initial launch adopted that charlie xcx brat album aesthetic uh, and with with charlie's blessing.
0:24:52 - Tristra
I mean, she tweeted like that camilla was brat like I think that was literally the entire tweet.
0:24:57 - Eleanor
It was yeah, camilla is brat right, um, and just as a side note, this um billboard piece links to the hilarious explainer segment on CNN in which the anchors all sort of like carefully enunciate things like I think you might say she owned it, it's absolutely adorable. It's adorable, it's great adorable, it's adorable, it's great, um, but also a note that um that, at the same time, um, trump is tweeting or yeah, I guess, tweeting and truth socialing, whatever, whatever that is these right.
0:25:34 - Tristra
These ai images about taylor, swift and isis or something oh yeah, because the the claim was that that the swifties are up in arms and and voting for trump. Because taylor's concert got interrupted by isis, which had to be one of the most yeah 2024 storylines.
0:25:51 - Eleanor
Right, but but obviously, however ineffectual that um that is, it's a, it's still trying to tap into fandom and the power of artists to make a political stance feel cool, to adjust the vibe, yeah yeah yeah.
0:26:11 - Tristra
And that was an interesting if you think about Taylor Swift, as she has this interesting position as being this sort of wholesome, you know, middle America, not Midwestern like Waltz, but sort of like middle of the road, mainstream, good american girl country roots, yeah, you know football um you know, football sweetie like very much, not like other girls yes, but that that's what. Yeah, and please, swifties, don't hate on us, okay it's all good.
0:26:43 - Eleanor
this is this is. We say all of this with love. This is not good, yeah, yeah.
0:26:46 - Tristra
Whatever, you know you can love Taylor as much as you need to, but it's interesting that she could be used in that way, like as leaning toward. Well, maybe she's actually conservative and I think that's one of her. Find that weird Venn diagram tiny little space and just make the most of it.
0:27:08 - Eleanor
It's pretty impressive and some of that is, through not making public statements about her political support, and in some ways, this reminds me of Dolly Parton's long stance, which is that she focuses on individuals and love, and so when people ask her about her politics especially, I think lately about, you know, her fans in the LGBTQ plus community that she focuses on loving individuals and not making grand political statements or sweeping statements about her political choices.
0:27:44 - Tristra
Well, except for that, you know Marxist. Sorry, that's just as fake as oh actually.
0:27:50 - Eleanor
I mean, if we wanted to get into fake Dolly Parton?
0:27:53 - Tristra
Oh, let's do it Okay. Yes, actually, yeah, we have some fake Dolly Parton for you, ladies and gentlemen.
0:27:58 - Eleanor
Kristen Robinson of Billboard. If you're not subscribed to her machine learning newsletter, uh, you really ought to be missing out, yeah yeah, yeah. So this piece is available to read on the billboard website. If you don't get the newsletter, um, it's titled don't believe the internet.
0:28:15 - Tristra
Inside the digital agency making fan fiction for artists and you know, eleanor and I being the people we are, we're like oh wow. I was like is someone generating novels?
0:28:25 - Eleanor
about Shibuze? Are they posting 50K fanfics on AO3?
0:28:29 - Tristra
Here we go. Well, it's not quite that so. Eleanor, do you want to run us through what they're doing, because it's fascinating.
0:28:34 - Eleanor
So it's you know, fans are always making content about their artists, sometimes in line with the artist's sort of public persona, sometimes kind of add on to that doing with things like fan cams where there's a lot of edits of existing appearances of the artist. But this new digital agency called Water Cooler, just remove a few vowels. No.
0:29:01 - Tristra
E's, please no E's.
0:29:03 - Eleanor
No A. Remove a few vowels. No ease, no ease. Um, no a. Um. They are making um fan or they're making tiktok videos for channels that look like fan channels. Right, they're doing the same thing that fans are doing of recycling and repurposing and editing um uh appearances of artists, but that's. They are now creating fake stories about their clients in order to tell stories like dolly parton is shibuzi's godmother and got him on the beyonce album. But the way they're doing it feels really is it a gray area or is it way over the line, because it's using interviews with both Dolly Parton who's not a client as far as we know of Water Cooler and Shibuzy, and editing them carefully, cleverly, and then adding AI voices to say the things that aren't actually true.
0:30:05 - Tristra
So this is where it gets so interesting. I'm like did that get approved? Yeah, who approved that? And you know, I just I love Shibuzee, I also love people getting creative with promotion and you know art and content, but it feels so close to misinformation. It's very interesting. It's a really, really interesting model and you kind of wonder. I mean, so far it feels like it maybe is right at the line, but you could see how just the wrong little step and it could get way, way out of control. Yeah.
0:30:39 - Eleanor
I think that's what makes me feel a little creeped out by it as well. Right Is that Dolly Parton being Shibuzy's godmother is like a relatively innocent story to get in your head.
0:30:48 - Tristra
Yeah, it's sweet.
0:30:49 - Eleanor
It's sweet, but you're right, it's that step. It's that like one more step across that line and it could get weird or dangerous or, you know, promote some bad things. And I think some of my response to that is is colored by how misinformation has been working right now. Right. And that the the riots in the UK were prompted by social media stories misidentifying an attacker.
0:31:20 - Tristra
And here's the other really interesting thing when we're talking about AI specifically and the use of generative AI in creating audio video to confuse or in this case, I know it's more to delight and entertain you know people really dislike it. You know people really dislike it. There's been a lot of polling because again, everyone thought this was going to be the AI election. There's been a lot of polling, at least here in the US, around AI and its reception and people think it's creepy and weird Weird in the current use of that term, not in the keep Austin weird type use of that term. So there's a lot of concern about use that term. So there's a lot of concern about, I would say that people should think really carefully about how they use these tools and how deep they get into this approach, because there is a very strong potential for severe backlash. Yeah, yeah, even if, even if it's a well-meaning, creative, fun, light product, you're making People kind of hate that deceptive quality.
And also you know, just the folks that did all the fake robocalls using Biden's voice just got a $1 million, fine. So there's some FCC, ftc concerns that I would keep in mind if I were a part of an artist team considering this kind of approach. I don't know, I'd love to hear from the water cooler folks how they see all this, because they may have some really clear lines and boundaries in place or thoughts about all this, and they may have gotten Dolly Parton's team's approval for all.
0:32:58 - Eleanor
I know, yeah, For all we know this is. I mean, I'm not saying artists shouldn't be pranksters, right?
0:33:04 - Tristra
Oh yeah, of course not Right.
0:33:07 - Eleanor
It's just we don't know what's happening behind the scenes, and I wish I could remember where I read this recently. But there's been a lot of talk about misinformation, especially surrounding the election, and somebody smart I'm pretty sure I saw this on a Washington Post TikTok oh my, and post TikTok saying that the biggest problem with misinformation is not that people will change their minds when they see that right, they're not going to. If somebody is a Taylor Swift fan and is committed to supporting Harris, the Trump AI images of Swifties for Trump is not going to change their mind, but somebody who is a Trump supporter and a Taylor Swift fan will feel like, yeah, that could be it.
That could be true that they might know that it's fake, but it feels right and so it leads more to those bubbles that we've been talking about. That help keep America divided, that it helps people feel more confident in the choices they've made, rather than necessarily changing minds.
0:34:10 - Tristra
Yeah, and since we're in the election here, it also keeps people focused on stupid spats and dumb cultural nonsense as opposed to actual issues or policies that could improve their lives.
0:34:20 - Eleanor
That's a really good point. It's like if you're trying to be mindful and demure about the considerate about what you're consuming and doing, fact checking that is exhausting.
0:34:31 - Tristra
Totally yeah. And if that's where your mental energy is going yeah, You're going to get sucked into all sorts of rabbit holes. You don't need to go down so well.
We've gotten a little bit far afield from our beloved music industry, but I think Bring it back, trista, bring it back, bring it back, but I think there's a lot of food for thought here about how fandoms, how artists' sort of aesthetic clouds can be used in all these different interesting new ways using new technology. And you know there's always going to be questions, and so again, no shade being thrown at Water Cooler, I think what they're doing is really interesting and maybe I'd love to talk to them at some point, but it really raises some great questions that we should be asking.
0:35:13 - Eleanor
And I think all of the stories we've talked about today really reflect how music, music marketing, music fandom is deeply embedded in cultural shifts that we're seeing, that those tectonic shifts are not just in the music industry, they are global and sort of culture-wide.
0:35:33 - Tristra
All right. Well, this is awesome. Eleanor, Thanks so much for jamming with me on these articles here.
0:35:40 - Eleanor
Thank you for letting me sit in the co-host chair.
0:35:44 - Tristra
Yeah, the co-host chair is really uncomfortable.
0:35:46 - Eleanor
It is.
0:35:47 - Tristra
It's kind of hard and I think it's made by some very grumpy Amish grandpa.
0:35:51 - Eleanor
Yeah, and I also have a very bright light shining in my face, kind of like I'm being interrogated.
0:35:58 - Tristra
Or like you're in a Netflix episode. Anyway, thanks so much for listening everybody, and we will catch you next week.
0:36:08 - Dmitri
Thanks for listening to Music Tectonics. If you like what you hear, please subscribe on your favorite podcast app. We have new episodes for you every week. Did you know? We do free monthly online events that you, our lovely podcast listeners, can join? Find out more at musictectonics.com and, while you're there, look for the latest about our annual conference and sign up for our newsletter to get updates. Everything we do explores the seismic shifts that shake up music and technology, the way the earth's tectonic plates cause quakes and make mountains. Connect with music tectonics on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. That's my favorite platform. Connect with me. Dmitri Vietze, if you can spell it, We'll be back again next week, if not sooner.
Let us know what you think! Tweet @MusicTectonics, find us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram, or connect with podcast host Dmitri Vietze on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.
The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Weekly episodes include interviews with music tech movers & shakers, deep dives into seismic shifts, and more.
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