It’s another How to Scale Up! Rock star turned tech pioneer Ryan Star joins us to share his transition from stage to boardroom. As CEO and co-founder of Stationhead, Ryan created a platform that bridges the gap between superfans and artists, redefining how music is consumed and celebrated. Stationhead's growth, with over 17 million users and engagement from top artists like Nicki Minaj and Billie Eilish, speaks to its unique approach in the crowded music streaming landscape. Ryan talks about the resilience and vision that fueled his journey from major record label tours to leading a community-driven music tech revolution.
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Episode Transcript
Machine transcribed
0:00:09 - Dmitri
How to scale up. Welcome back to Music Tectonics, where we go beneath the surface of music and tech. I'm your host, Dmitri Vietze. I'm also the founder and CEO of Rock Paper Scissors, the PR and marketing firm that specializes in music, tech and tech. I'm your host, Dmitri Vietze. I'm also the founder and CEO of Rock Paper Scissors, the PR and marketing firm that specializes in music, tech and innovation. And this is another how to Scale Up episode, this time with Stationhead.
Our guest, Ryan Star, is a rock star. In fact, he appeared on the CBS reality TV show, Rockstar, as well as appearing on the Tonight Show Rachel Ray and more. Signed to Island Records, Ryan's albums have charted on Billboard and he's toured the world, including opening for Bon Jovi and the Goo Goo Dolls. But, more importantly for you, our lovely Music Tectonics listeners, Ryan is the CEO and co-founder of Stationhead. Stationhead, the leading music-centric superfan app, adds a vital social layer to the streaming experience. With over 17 million users across 1,000 fandom communities, it has become a global hub where fans can stream, chat and connect. The platform has organically attracted chart-topping artists like Nicki Minaj, Sabrina Carpenter and Billie Eilish, among others, who use Stationhead to engage with their most loyal fans and, as a result, it's increasingly becoming a part of the artist promotion cycle, making it easier for artists to connect with their biggest supporters. It's so cool to have Stationhead here. Welcome to the podcast, Ryan.
0:01:33 - Ryan
Thanks for having me Quite the intro.
0:01:38 - Dmitri
Hey, it's your career. I'm just reporting on it here.
0:01:41 - Ryan
You know, I always get a kick out of it because life obviously is a fuller, more colorful picture and we've all gotten used to, whether it's LinkedIn, bio or Wikipedia, or however we put it all together, I'm all factual. So I'm satisfied and I approve this message that you laid out. I'd love to reciprocate and say yours because I'm a big fan, obviously. You that you laid out, uh, love to. I'd love to reciprocate and say yours because I'm a big fan, obviously, uh, but, but. But it's cool if it's a smile on my face, um, uh, and and, and it exhausts me in a way. Uh. One thing I'll point out, because I know the audience here would resonate with this audience um, uh, in that you mentioned island records. Uh, I, I, I was an artist that began the journey when I was playing CBGBs in ninth grade. Yes, nice.
And started early, and this is the analog world. So it wasn't as easy as just putting something up right. Putting something up meant you had to go, do a paper route to get a van and trailer and then go to the show and, like, convince your parents to let you to go to the Manhattan on a Monday. You know that kind of thing. Point is that that grind and that was, you know, the majority of my professional life was as an artist, and it wasn't one record deal, it was four major record label deals and I say this especially to this audience, not to brag that I, I did it in four times. I say it to you know.
Say I was in the grind. I experienced left and right under over, you name it. I went through the, the um, the evolution of the business, I and, and, and and all, while getting a good taste of mud and dirt in my mouth as I was dragged through it, because, you know, four times I can't express. So that's the only thing that perked my ear. When you mentioned one record, I was like, oh my God, what a journey that whole thing was. They all have a chapter and the reason I bring it up at the top of this call is it mirrors what it takes in probably some of the questions you might ask me today about building a company and sticking through it and moving and grooving and grinding and having grit and resilience right, like I think that's what brings us all. If you're listening here, or even you to the microphone here with me, I think that's what we all have.
0:04:03 - Dmitri
Yeah, amazing. Oh no, I really love the color of the, the actual, the pain that you went through and, uh, and just, you know, people dream about record deals and you're like, yeah, you dream about them and then you survive them as well. So let's, let's dive in here on Stationhead what was the original ideal for starting Stationhead and how did that transform in the early days? Because I remember the early days of seeing this pop up, everyone talking about Station. Honestly, to me it looked like a lot of other startups that looked like really like a huge trajectory, like all of a sudden, everybody was talking about that. That probably there's probably stuff that preceded that as well. So tell me what. What was the idea and how did it transform?
0:04:44 - Ryan
Yeah, well, I kind of touched a little bit on the artist journey and it really started from there. So, as an artist on tour and having fans around the world lucky enough to have fans around the world and kind of get to that level, you know, I was in no way I was in Beaver status. We probably wouldn't be here if I was be here, if I was, um, but you know, did build some sort of career and and and loyalty and a and a fan fan base and a fandom, um, towards my music. Uh, I was feeling at the time as an artist. Uh, I, I regained control. You're bringing me back now for a second. Yeah, I regained control of my masters. A very, a, very, very liberating moment.
For many artists these days, you want to get the deal and then, as badly as you wanted that deal, you didn't want to be free, and there's a lot of nuance in there, of course, as labels do their part in making you to get to a place where you can be free.
But anyhow, I regained my masters for the first time. I owned my career for the first time since I was essentially a kid when Madonna signed me to my first deal and I wanted to, instead of jumping back in to inevitably go through that same song and dance to inevitably, you know, be disappointed on the other side of another release and a label and a regime change, you know, as happens in this industry or whatever just things that weren't my control. The world was different. There were tools and platforms to maybe connect deeper and even make a living, as I was living in New York, expecting my first kid, you know, and I just want to talk. Where's this business at? What do I have? What do I actually have? We're a long way since I owned my audience and my mailing list back in the Mercury lounge days, walking around right.
So, what is this and what's next? Right? So I took control of my masters and realized that you know, you had these platforms like streaming was starting to show its potential, especially if you're an artist that had fans and actual streams, and there was a lot of excitement starting there that I was getting excited about that. Finally, for the first time, there was a money trail to these big numbers of numbers of streams you know millions of this on this and millions of streams on youtube video and you're like for who are these people? Can they buy a shirt, right, like that's all I'm thinking like. All these numbers are great, but who are they? And, uh, that vast wilderness, you know.
So there was excitement around streaming, but it was not very intimate and social and and connecting to your fans. And then, at the same time, there was socials and as much as music, people were building them up as influential people on the platforms. They weren't built very musically, they weren't musical. It wasn't that. First it was. Take a picture of your French toast first, right.
So there was this hole and this disconnect with how I wanted to connect with my fans and what I wanted to connect around, which was the music. And then and then feeling a direct connection with them and it was. It was hard to get at those points, uh, kind of a little edge and uh, against the traditional radio model at the time, uh inspired me to like I was thinking at first, what youtube did for you know tv we're gonna do for radio and uh, you know, all of this kind of mixed around kind of inspired me to build station head the way I built it, um, and uh kind of celebrate streaming and celebrate social, but make it about the music, make it about the art, make it about the social but make it about the music, make it about the art, make it about the artist's voice, make it about the fans.
0:08:10 - Dmitri
Nice, and so at that point, when you launched, I remember it felt like, yeah, it felt like anyone could have a radio station. Is what it felt like? That people were creating these social channels through audio it's audio only and like a lot of people in the music industry that I knew were like, hey, I'm doing, I'm doing something on station head, come, come, listen in and so forth um, and that's not exactly what it is now. Necessarily, I don't know how do you, how do you describe the early days versus where it is now in terms of the experience?
0:08:38 - Ryan
sure it's, it's, it's uh. When you get super close to it and low level it, it's like it's, it gets blurry, like where does one end and where does one begin? When you pull out, you know far enough, you see a very clear line, which is station head. You know, is uh, this, this, it's a place where fandoms and artists live right. It's like and and and, and.
What they're doing is, um, doing what was kind of left behind in the digital world that very much has been celebrated in the physical world for a long time, which is I want to go support my artist, I want to be a community doing it and I want to be seen, you know, and, and that that's those simple ideas is what every line of code is really built on in every move we make. Is is, is what every line of code is really built on in every move we make. And, uh, you could if those words don't resonate, um, maybe because I'm speaking too much more of like a product guy now, unless as an artist, I could, uh, I could use an example of. I mean, it was only what a year ago or a year and a half ago, we all witnessed on the biggest news channels kids in front of their computer screens, like you know, under their covers alone in their room, crying while they're trying to buy tailored Swift tickets because the loading wheel wouldn't stop and they lost their place online and like and there's all these examples of this like lonely experience in the digital world around music, of this, like lonely experience in the digital world around music. Um, very far from the days of, you know, being together, waiting online, tenting out and, you know, in the rain.
I'm not saying we should go back to that, but nobody very much purpose built a music fan experience. While we built modern infrastructure of selling things or listening right, we, we kind of work no one was really purpose building for the fan, the artist experience. Now, don't get me wrong. Like artists, fans are very mischievous creatures and they will find a way. I'll find a way to be on, you know, twitter or X now, um, saying, Dmitri, I'm listening to the new Ryan star, you listening to it? Yeah, you're listening. I'm like we're listening to get you know. Know, we'll figure out ways to use the tools to do what we want to do, to communicate and connect.
Uh, but it was very clear that no one really with empathy and purpose built for this growing market, this exciting, like influential, can swing elections kind of market called the fandom, super fan right, um, and I, and I very much understood the power of it. They supported me. You know these are the people that, uh, I didn't have the luxury of being a superstar. I genuinely had to live off of the, the few, or the people I cared that much to carry me and lift me and my superfans. So I learned some things there and and put into this product which which resonates.
So now, when you look at it, yes, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a more of a community place where, where, where super fans can support their favorite artists and the artists are there too.
And it's this great, beautiful, almost like a VIP experience for that post show, merch booth experience, where you're talking to your fans because you know those are the real ones. You can go on Instagram, live anytime and play the garden, but where are those truest fans that aren't running out of the venue, that are staying right outside the bus and like, want to connect with you and remember me and like those kind of relationships? That's, that's who we were building for, um, and, yeah, it was a long way since the earlier days when I just wanted a yo, wouldn't it be cool if I had my own radio station? You had your, your own radio station. I was thinking kind of in the old world a little bit. And then we found our way. I was building that technology. You're right, a lot of people are like I have a show, I have a show, but there are plenty of ways to broadcast, plenty of ways to do that these days, and that just wasn't our sweet spot. Our sweet spot was finding the way we built that's.
0:12:30 - Dmitri
That's a really good point. I mean, you were doing one thing and then you kind of just connected up with the right type of user for that experience. What was the first sign that you might have some success with station uh?
0:12:41 - Ryan
yeah, it was very, it was a very clear line, like it was very, it was pushing a boulder up a mountain for a while, um, with the vision of I'm gonna democratize, like radio right, um, and a lot of people have tried to do this since and you've seen so many different iterations and I think, um, staying alive as an artist or a startup or however you're, you know, listening out there. I think, like, like, we were very aware and listening and our radar was up. I think you have to be, you have to have conviction, but you also have to be aware that sometimes, like, the piece is going to uh reveal itself to you. You know, my, my sister is a beautiful, world renowned, incredible goldsmith and she starts with a block of, you know, metal or gold or something you know it will. She has a vision for what it's going to be, but over time, the sculptor will, like, it will reveal some things to it, and anyone that's made a song or done a podcast, you know, sees that it goes different ways and you have to be, you have to have your vision and know the direction you want to go. But I think, um, you know, you have to also be uh listening for the signs, especially when it's revealing what it wants to be.
And uh, for us it was a very simple day. You know we were doing anything. We were like, okay, we have this platform where you could kind of be a radio dj and, and, and we were trying everything you know to get people to go and get them discovered. And it turned into almost a hit game. The tech was beautiful and we were building this incredible technology that worked so well, but the efforts to get the whole community going and create a whole new airwaves seemed very. It was hard and of course, we were like well, I guess we need our, we need our. You know Joe Rogan or Howard Stern, like, imagine we can get someone you know you need. We were willing to give like half the company way. You know an artist that would use it or someone famous. You know the old, the old trick in the book, which was like you need someone to to. You know, funnel it down and like an influencer model right, which is one will bring the many. And that was the model probably since the internet came out like one we'll get the many. And we didn't have the money to do that and we instead had to like just build it better.
And then one fateful night we put a better product out that was easier to understand, that I didn't have to like personally walk you through to understand all the intricacies to how to use it and it landed in the right hands. And the right hands that day was a very famous fandom that we called the BTS Army and a very, very incredible, inspiring special bunch. And basically they realized that what they were doing elsewhere like I said before, listening alone and communicating on other platforms, they realized they could do that all on station head. And we went from, you know, fighting to get maybe like 40 people to listen to a show, to, all of a sudden, hundreds of thousands of concurrent listeners at once, becoming the biggest audio global broadcast probably ever at the time and remember this is when, like, social audio is thing and clubhouse was making noise. Maybe they had like 20 000 with like oprah and elon like that was the max, you know, with that model and all of a sudden, by building the right product for a fandom that wanted to be together while listening to their favorite music together was enough to kind of just move that goalpost like break the mold, mold, and at that point. We were like there's our market, there's our audience. It wouldn't have made me happier, because that's really what I was after the whole time, which is trying to connect with those fans. And then, one after another, fandom after fandom started saying hey, we could do this together here, we could listen together here.
And then another great moment was when Cardi B found out that her fans you know were, were a party gang, was all listening to her music on stationette and she's going what, my friend, my fans have a station. What is this? You know, she's like driving home and a truck from the Grammys eating tacos, like literally. And all of a sudden, one of those recognizable voices hops on stationette and they say the most magical things to me.
And remember again, it was always bring the star to get the many. And all of a sudden they said welcome to our channel. Hey, cardi, welcome to our channel. So now the artist found where her people were, that question that everyone's been asking for a decade where are the fans? Where are they? How do I reach them? All of a sudden, instead of her trying to find them, they, they made enough noise, they were big enough that she found them and they said welcome to our channel and then artist after artist started kind of organically finding their fandoms and now obviously we've become kind of an invaluable source to massive record releases, important figure in in doing that same mission, which is being together and supporting and being seen and serving this growing fandom community.
0:17:22 - Dmitri
Wow, this is so cool to hear about that inflection point that led to the next inflection point, and so forth. We have to take a quick break, but when we come back I want to translate this into a conversation about product market fit. We'll be right back. Well, hello, listener, did you know that this podcast is just one way? Music tectonics goes beneath the surface of music and tech. We know that innovation thrives on community and connection, so we bring innovators together in a variety of ways. We've got a free online event series we call Seismic Activity. We've got the Music Tectonics Conference every October in Los Angeles and we've got meetups at major industry events like the NAMM Show, south by Southwest and Music Biz. Stay on top of our schedule. Get the Music Tectonics newsletter in your inbox. Sign up at musictectonicscom. Okay, we're back.
Ryan, you were just talking about, before the break, how these fandoms found you, how these artists found those fandoms on Stationhead, and it goes to this question that we hear a lot about with music tech startups is do you have product market fit? How do you find product market fit? And, honestly, it sounds a little bit like you had a vision in mind. You were building towards product market fit. As an artist, you kind of knew what needed to come into a digital experience for this fandom artist relationship. But fandom found you, the market found you. In a sense, there was a lot that happened leading up to that. Compared to a lot of music tech startups, you have had some real staying power. I mean, you guys are like in your second life in a way. What decisions did you make along the way before that inflection point that allowed you to succeed to get to that?
0:18:57 - Ryan
My co-founder and I like to say that we are second time founders on our first company and, again, people out there building know what that means. Sometimes even investors understand what that means. You know, like there's a lot of learnings, a lot of humility along the way. Uh, I think the, the, the core to to it all. Um, and I've and I've heard many people say like no one is not wrong, right, no one to fold it and all that stuff.
But you know, I was built, like like most, that sign up for something like this, um, to to kind of not give up and and keep and keep going. Um, and I have a few beliefs there and and they work for me. Um and and, uh, you know, the first one that I'd like be bold about is is, uh, it's just staying alive, right, like, like nothing happens. If you're not alive, like if you can't, if you can't see another day, then then that's, that's, that's the sure way to end it, right. So as long as you're alive, there can be another way. I often have a visual of the beautiful game of Frogger and if you think of there's a direction you're going, you know you got to get up there. You're not even certain which hole you're going to get to. But you know that way is the way and you'll figure it out maybe along the way, and maybe that's for me, cause I'm a little, I don't have it all planned out, but I know I'm going that way, right?
And uh along that way. What happens? Right, like you, you sometimes um, you sometimes are are somewhere where you feel safe and in the right direction, and you didn't have to go backwards, sometimes right To move over, to go again. And then sometimes you're on something and you're moving and you know it's about to disappear. So again you got to like, jump to something else, just jump to the next most safe place to stay alive. And then, even if you're like totally on the other side of the screen that you wouldn't plan on being, you're still going in. You know, month to month, you're still going in the right direction, you're still getting there. And then, before you know it, you've built this thing and you have the successful level completion. And then what happens? You just go to the next level, right, so maybe you're smarter, maybe you've learned some more tricks, but it's very. I almost now, at this point, see that. I see it as that kind of game and I think that might apply to to anyone building anything I love it.
0:21:17 - Dmitri
I loved frogger. I've gone back to some retro video game places and played again, but I've never thought of it that way and I really love that model because I think I'm like you, ryan, in a sense that like I kind of know what direction I'm going.
I won't know exactly what the music tectonics conference is going to look like or what my roster for the Rock Paper Scissors PR firm is going to look like or what press, but just sort of like the sense of, like the direction, and then you just kind of have to hop in the right, keep going in the right direction. I love it. That's a great one, and you mentioned a couple things in this interview already. You mentioned, you know, investment, which we haven't talked about. I'm kind of curious a little bit about that. You mentioned social audio and, and I remember clubhouse famously rose to meteoric fame, securing investment at like a $4 billion valuation.
And now like where, where is it? I don't know where they went. I actually enjoyed it. It was. It was cool. Um, in spite of what my kids and some of my 20 something employees think, it was kind of dorky, but um, but it was interesting to watch such huge growth so quickly. And then also now like the magic trick of where is it? It's all gone. How have you approached investment and how has that been helpful or not to where station head is has come to?
0:22:26 - Ryan
Again, I think um, combining the stay alive mentality with with um, bringing people in, that could potentially even help, you know, more minds. I think what I learned when I, when I started this, I came from a world where there weren't more than three singers in my school, right, so it was, it was quite easy I had. I also had a natural talent and something I worked at really hard but, like you know, growing up I was kind of like I was like the best singer in the school. Like you know, growing up I was kind of like I was like the best singer in the school. Like you know, objectively or, I'm sorry, subjectively I guess, but like you know, we took it serious and it wasn't like everyone was on a ticket. So. So I guess my point is I knew what it felt like to like be really good at something that I studied my whole life and worked at and got better and made a name for myself. So when I started you know, a different kind of business venture than my touring and publishing and the typical thing I came from I knew enough to know I didn't know anything and knew that feeling I had of being so confident on the stage or writing songs or producing, I didn't have that same confidence. So I knew to surround myself with the right. You know people that knew people that have done it, people that can help me, and I think that was the first step.
And it combines with getting the right money in early right. I mean they always say you know money's green or whatever, where the saying is, especially if you need to just stay alive and sometimes you got to take money. But especially if you need to just stay alive and sometimes you got to take money. But in the beginning we were lucky to get it from people that believed in knowing it. I think I think our early investors kind of knew that it was going to be a long road, right, if your first money in to an idea you know what I mean it's not even a product. I can't remember if I made a t-shirt and sold the t I show I made money. So it was a very simple transaction. The idea of raising money didn't even I didn't even quite understand that.
And, um, again, I didn't come from Harvard business school and like have a whole different set of uh, um tools. You know, when they start something I had, I had what I had. Um, so surrounding ourselves with good people from the gate came with the money. So it was kind of a win-win and that's how I first started approaching it and I still try to approach it every step of the way.
Like that Can they add value more than the money? Because we're a private company, we can choose that and try to keep that kind of belief intact as we grow and take more money in keep. Keep that kind of belief like intact as we grow and take more money in. Um, so so you know a little I'm probably simplifying it because you know I'm sure at this point there's thousands of meetings over years and stuff and, um, you know, I I kind of went about it like hey, I'm putting this like bigger group together, a bigger band than I've ever been used to, and people have to bring skills to the table and I feel grateful that early on we had people like that come in.
0:25:17 - Dmitri
So are you saying that when you first took in money, you partnered with investors who knew that there would be future cash costs, that this would be a longer term thing, or are you more saying that you're just cautious every time you take money so there isn't as much pressure to do things that aren't good for the company?
0:25:39 - Ryan
Our early investors. I didn't grow up in Silicon Valley like networks, so we just didn't have that. What I've learned is more institutional capital. My network of people that had money to spend on things like visions and startups were record execs or artists, touring artists or writers, right, um, and what I guess I'm trying to say is I, the early people that came in to to get us off the ground, were people that that were and I think this defines any great early angel investor, and if people are out there listening to do this, I'm sure they understand that you're really at that point.
You've heard this in all the books. You know you're really investing in the people and you're believing that they will figure it out and they will pivot and they will stay alive and they will, you know, be able to inspire a growing company and hire the right people. And, you know, make mistakes and shake them off and like when you're coming in early, those are the kinds of people that that you need to be around and and that, and that's, I guess, what I, what I mean, and I think sometimes people can get, um, you know, maybe and I don't only know my experience, but I imagine if, uh, people sign up for different reasons, then you won't have that kind of luxury to maybe go the wrong way or fail or whatnot. I would imagine things can be tougher out there if you don't identify the right early, early investors.
0:27:09 - Dmitri
Gotcha, yeah, ok, we're going to take another quick break and when we come back I want to get some more tips out of you for some other music tech founders. We'll be right back.
0:27:17 - intro
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0:27:53 - Dmitri
Okay, we're back. I'm curious, Ryan. I want to give you a list of some of the challenges I've heard of, not just in starting a business but scaling a business, and I'm curious to hear from you which ones have been the biggest ones, and then we'll talk about those. I'm thinking about things like recruiting a team, paying for growth, leveling up customers, like getting bigger customers Maybe in your case it's bigger artists. Leveling up customers, like getting bigger customers maybe in your case it's bigger artists managing licenses, some of the some of the music industry fund stuff, and keeping up your own energy as the you know CEO, as a co-founder, et cetera. So so, which, which ones are those? Or maybe there's other things that aren't there. Which ones have been the biggest challenges to scale Stationhead?
0:28:30 - Ryan
At each phase. It's, it's, it's different. I think in the earlier days, when you're talking about building technology, great advice that was given to me early on was you have to build your own in-house team. And again remember, these things were foreign to me. I thought, hey, my guy knows how to code and we're backstage at the Bowery Ballroom. I'll be on tour in two weeks. You know like, remember, this is how I was on the Tonight Show. Two days later I'm laying a sold out show at the Bowery Ballroom. Three days later I canceled the tour and I'm in a one major apartment building station.
You know, like this came out of nowhere, this new passion and determination to build something, and I probably thought at the time this will go quick, this is easy. You know my guy, like this kid, I know he's going to code this thing and be done. So the team the team is is is quite important. So you're asking the right questions, I think, when it comes to building technology, unless it's something you could point to and say, hey, you see this app here or this, this platform, this application, replicate this exactly and put my logo on it you might be able to kind of outsource that kind of thing and say, like this has already been done, just do the same thing and thank you, like submit it and great, that might work. Anything more nuanced and in Stationhead's case, and the reason I'm so liberal with like giving you the nuance of like our core and how we build this thing and what our secrets were and how we found and how we pivoted and what we're doing, is because there's so much nuance in the actual product. There's so many things and, trust me, I know like Amazon tried to build what we're building. You know like so I had, I've had that question of what happens if Amazon builds it, which is every startup person gets that question by investors and you know in our case they did it. So we understand what that means and more confident in the nuances that we've built into this product and how we operate.
So with that you can't. You can't outsource that kind of thing and bringing in a team and hiring a team and you know, building it from scratch takes a long time. It's emotionally investing. I mean people say the word culture and they say it and put on the wall or the Zoom or whatever. But it's one thing to say it and one thing to do it and doing it is a real full-time investment and knowing you're going to get all this wrong and having to do it again. So now you understand uh.
So I think um at that, at the early level, it was learning that we needed to build an in-house world-class technology team and and uh that that was interesting and um, for me it was a very uh mirrored experiences. There's plenty of things in this business that are new to me, but in building uh came very natural to someone who uh used to get in a van and trailer and eat, like you know, leftover McDonald's for breakfast. I'm also a health notes that was painful, um, and drive through the night, you know, for 50 bucks. Like I learned what it means to be a team believing in the vision and the bigger good and the potential to inspire the world through music specifically, uh, so this, this, this part of team building, came kind of natural to me. Um, to get people inspired for the vision. But but that was in the early days, the, the most important thing. We could not do this alone, especially the kind of lift we have. It's, it's uh, it's heavy technology that we built that no one's done before what?
0:31:52 - Dmitri
What about some of the music industry stuff, the licenses, the rights, all that kind of stuff? Has that been an education? I mean, you were already an artist, you already signed label deals, you had a sense of how that worked, but now you're like online radio streaming. I don't know what you call it Social radio.
0:32:10 - Ryan
Imagine I'm on this going like what, what do you mean? And I never heard of this before.
0:32:16 - intro
And like, all of a sudden, this was the end.
0:32:17 - Ryan
Because you asked this card like, oh, what I needed what? No, thankfully, because I do come from the industry. I knew enough from this business I grew up in to know that startup. You know small budgets. Little guy, david Versaglithe I actually knew out of the get-go.
We did not want to touch the music, I did not want to get into the music game, I did not want to make license deals, I did not want to do anything with that and at the same time, I was so, uh, supportive and such an early believer remember this is as my friends were still trying to hawk cds at the merch booth and get you know, the streaming is going to kill the industry forever. You know, I'm recently looking at old, like you know, vlogs and stuff actually about like how dismal this was going to be. And uh, and I and I, I thought very differently. I was like wow, no, there's actually. It might not be a lot yet, but imagine when everyone's streaming this is this number's going to go up. And I was a real believer in in the technology. Um, especially someone that lived through the free fall of the industry post Napster. You know Um and um. So so that combined with like hey, I want people streaming um and uh, not wanting to touch masters or get into that world.
Uh, it was kind of one of our our our special inventive moments was realizing that, hey, we don't have to send satellites into space, you know, and pay insane amounts of money and have all these kind of like regulations.
It was such an old feeling or we don't have to take radio waves that are, you know, hundreds of years old and like trying to figure that out and play by again these very regulated, archaic, traditional rules. We were very much thinking forward and thinking, you know, in a way, young, and it was obvious that everyone had the music right here. So we did this really cool thing and tapped into the generous APIs of Apple Music and Spotify and all the DSPs that want people to innovate. You can run with a Nike app or Ticketmaster, the information is all out there for everybody. And we kind of redefined what a traditional broadcast was, because the idea was the music's everywhere. So Dmitri and Samantha and Johnny in three, two, one play this Telus song together Right, um, that's essentially uh what station it does if it's locally playing on everyone's device, but yet it feels like a traditional broadcast and that was uh, a big inventive uh moment for us, when we stumbled on that.
It's holding the patent material right here on some of the technology that took to get that Nice.
0:34:56 - Dmitri
It's brilliant and it gave you the liberation of not trying to build a streaming company, but instead to build a social company.
0:35:04 - Ryan
Yeah, that would have derailed us and bankrupt us probably. And you know, it was also what we wanted and what everyone wanted. I wanted more streams. As an artist, I knew I had fans. I wanted more streams as an artist, I knew I had fans and I didn't want them just liking my French toast because, with 10,000 likes on my Instagram which I was getting I, that meant nothing to me. It meant nothing to me and in the end, none of them would buy a t-shirt. 10,000 streams while I'm hanging out and thanking them and talking to them and having fun and talk about the music. And now we're vibing, now everyone's asking you for your t-shirt and and and turns about the music.
0:35:32 - Dmitri
And now we're vibing Now. Everyone's asking you for your first shirt, and turns out, the fans wanted the same thing.
0:35:39 - Ryan
They wanted to show up where I wanted it. You know where it's about the music and it comes back to like an early day when I handed in my record. I went to the woods. You know, you read about stories like this. I went to the woods and I shaved my head it's a true story and I almost lost myself and I gave everything to this beautiful record I made that I'm so proud of, that no one's heard, called Angels and Animals, and I handed it into the label and they said, ok, great, now we need content. And I thought what did I just hand you?
And the interesting thing that I hear whether it's Alicia Keys or Mariah Carey or Nicki Minajaj or coldplay or ed sheeran or olivier rodrigo or billy eilish with phineas the list is jaw-dropping. When I say these things, I mean all of them. I hear the same thing when they're on station with their fans. They I hear this, uh, vulnerability and I hear this like uh, uh, this, this gratitude, um, and this and this trust, because the music's there, because, like, that's who they are and that's what they always wanted to be about. And it's really been a while since a platform uh hugged that experience from an artist to a fan and I think that's really I can't put that on a deck but I could explain it to you because I know you know music and that that part right there is fucking magic.
0:37:03 - Dmitri
Yeah, it really is. It's so cool. Okay, I got one last question for this. You've been very generous with uh, kind of really going back telling your story and also giving us tips and and and and thinking through like where were the moments that were pivotal, where were the challenges and how you sidestep things. The next question is what's next for station head? What can we see coming in in the in the near future?
0:37:28 - Ryan
Continuing, you know, to build for the fans as a community, the fans for the fans as a community. The fans, um, and and, and the artists, right, um, and that works for us. Um, we see this, everything we've done so far as such, such the first tippy toe into what we're really building, and I see a world, um, where, uh, everybody, you know, you, you're an artist, and you and you're starting your, your career, and you, you start your tick tock to get discovered. Does that pretty incredibly? Um, and maybe your Instagram is this modern website, kind of visual branded thing. Um, and, of course, your website, which hasn't really changed since I had my first one in 1994, uh, same, same tabs. You know, like it's all there, nothing's really involved there. And then, um, you know, and, and, as you're setting up your, your career, uh, yeah, like you would also say, oh well, I got to set up my fandom, I got to set up that place, I'm going to name my fandom, you know I'm going to have them here. And if I go make a million fans, I know 10,000 of them will come here. And if I make 5 million more fans than another, you know 50,000, maybe I'm just using numbers would come here and I know, no matter ups and downs, you know, whether I'm not on the tonight show for three years or whether I go away, whether I'm a huge star again at every moment. I'm not just going to disappear and say, where are the fans? Um, I'm always going to have this core group in my digital world, right, that are here to support. They're here to be a community. They've built their fan life around me and that's where they live. So I always know where they are and I could always go there and celebrate the music or tell them what I'm doing, and they're always there supporting me.
More like a grassroots. Think about a political campaign. Think about a politician. People are putting up posters, they're running around town, they're making calls, they're going to people's houses they're supporting and then once a month, the politician will come into Brooklyn and bring some pizzas and bagels and take some pictures and thank them all and have a time and then they'll go out and continue to do their job out there, right, knowing they have their people holding them and supporting them and they're always dependable there. That's like what we're building. So this expands out. You know, from the people that kind of hit and had success bringing listening parties to the world. And now there's these great buying events, you know, on Stationhead, and then there's these walkthroughs, and all of this will just keep expanding and the truth is that we'll be able to say clearly and boldly like we, we have built for the fandom space and I believe that market is growing and I think it's always been about the fans. That's the funny thing.
You hear a lot of people that want to get money out of this talk about fandom and fans and I take a personal interest in you know, I, I, I, I often feel uh, uh, uh, responsible here, because I think a lot of their words are hollow. I think when you get people that need to uh turn profit in three months, think of fandom, and they think just more money to be had, and that's the wrong way to look at it. And as brilliant as like a blockchain technology was, and then you had like NFTs and get rich quick, people trying to like fit, you know, kind of just like grossly devalue the whole thing, it all crumbled down and set them back five years or whatever, to this beautiful technology that has value in the world. Um, I, I, I worry about the something that it's always been about the fans, Uh, and I worry about this hype around fandom.
Fandom because these people, uh, I find a lot of them don't really truly understand what the meaning is and what the bigger opportunity is than trying to just get a few more dollars from them a month right now, and that's something I keep an eye on. And in the end, you know, I see a world where fandom is as exciting as passing down a you know, a New York Mets jersey to your grandson, and fandom becomes like that and it's always existed. I think there's been greats before us, from the dead to Pearl Jam 10 Club to Taylor Swift putting it in the DNA of her, to the BTS Army. Some people have built it into their DNA from the beginning, but there's yet to be a platform to truly build for that and support that, um, and that's what we wake up every day to do.
0:41:59 - Dmitri
Nice Sounds like you know. You had a concept as an artist from the beginning. You built, you evolved fandoms, found you artists then found their fandoms and now what you're saying is it's working. And this next year, next, whatever number of years, is really about maturity of this relationship, this platform, and seeing this become part of the regular. It's the part of the regular checklist of how you, how you grow as an artist, how you grow as a fandom, how you connect and how you, how you listen to music and find new checklist is the word of the day.
0:42:32 - Ryan
I love that. It's, it's, it's, uh. Yeah, I love that you really distilled it all. Should have you do comms for me.
0:42:40 - Dmitri
Yeah, let's go. Hey, Ryan, this has been an amazing conversation. I really think you you really have opened up and shared a lot with other founders, as well as the industry as a whole. I think people will be thinking a bit about some of the things you've said about fandom as well as startups. Thanks so much for joining me. This has been a blast.
0:42:57 - Ryan
Thanks so much, Dmitri.
0:42:59 - Dmitri
Thanks for listening to Music Tectonics. If you like what you hear, please subscribe on your favorite podcast app. We have new episodes for you every week. Did you know? We do free monthly online events that you, our lovely podcast listeners, can join? Find out more at musictctonicscom and, while you're there, look for the latest about our annual conference and sign up for our newsletter to get updates. Everything we do explores the seismic shifts that shake up music and technology, the way the earth's tectonic plates cause quakes and make mountains. Connect with music tectonics on Twitter, instagram and LinkedIn. That's my favorite platform. Connect with me. Dmitri Vietze, if you can spell it, we'll be back again next week, if not sooner.
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The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Weekly episodes include interviews with music tech movers & shakers, deep dives into seismic shifts, and more.
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